It was something of a political hall of mirrors: Hunter Biden arriving at Candace Owens’s house, sitting in a book-filled room decorated with a crucifix and orchids in the shape of a heart, holding a coffee cup labeled conspiracy theorist, and answering a range of questions from a podcast host who has called him “an alleged sex predator” and “A DEGENERATE THAT SHOULD BE IN PRISON” who comes from a “SCUM family.” The first question: “The cocaine that was found at the White House, was it yours?”
To say this was an unusual pairing is an understatement. To claim it was Frost/Nixon is an overstatement. But it said something about modern-day politics—and the weirdness of online culture—that the son of a former Democratic president and a right-wing podcaster were sitting there together, conversing for nearly two hours, finding common ground on being misunderstood, on being targeted by a powerful president, and on questioning the circumstances of Charlie Kirk’s death and whether the assassination attempts against Donald Trump were staged.
Owens apologized for treating Biden like “a caricature” and joining the “political machine” that attacked him during one of the lowest moments of his life (“I’m really sorry that I contributed to that. Like, I just feel really shitty”). He lavished her with praise (“You’re probably the most effective communicator I’ve ever heard behind the microphone”). She encouraged him to spend time in confession (“Don’t worry,” he responded, “I’ve been to confession”), and he giddily proposed that they go see Pope Leo XIV together: “For real, let’s go to the Vatican.” Biden offered book recommendations (“Have you ever read The Devil’s Chessboard?”), and Owens complimented his intelligence (“Not to be rude, but I thought you were dumb”).
Much of the conversation focused on Biden’s recovery story, human details of which Owens seemed largely unaware. “I just didn’t even consider: He’s a crackhead. That’s actually a very relatable thing,” she said at one point. (Never mind that in December 2024 she devoted a segment to President Biden pardoning his son, in which she mentioned “crack” more than two dozen times over about 20 minutes.) To anyone who has read Hunter Biden’s 2021 memoir, followed his federal court cases, or heard him in previous interviews, there were a lot of familiar themes: the guy who has long had addiction issues, and been in and out of rehab through much of his adult life. The guy who spiraled further after his brother died. The guy who watched as compromising photos, his private text messages, and more than a decade of emails became public fodder and complicated his dad’s campaign and presidency. “It forced me into a choice,” he said. “And the choice was: Do I get out of bed and live, or do I die? And it became that much of a dichotomy. And I chose to live, and it wasn’t easy.”
Biden has spent years living under Republican attacks. Owens herself led many of them alongside other fixtures of the hard right. Former Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene once, during a congressional hearing, held up graphic images of Biden engaged in sex acts. Yet earlier this week, Greene wrote on social media, “I am so interested in this interview. This is what real journalism looks like along with where the political underground of America is moving.” Both Owens and Greene have been repeatedly criticized for making anti-Semitic comments, downplaying the Holocaust, and playing into anti-Jewish tropes.
The most revealing moment came toward the end, as Biden recounted the attacks he faced. “They tore off all my clothes, tarred and feathered me, and put me in the center of town, and said, ‘Look at him.’ And I survived,” he said. Owens locked eyes with him and apologized several times. “Genuinely, I’m so sorry,” she said. “I did partake in just the inhumanity of just Look at this guy at the worst moment of his life, with prostitutes. He’s on crack, he’s on drugs, and we should make fun of him.” Biden began tearing up, wiping his eyes. “For you to say that to me, I truly mean it, just from a purely selfish point of view, means the world. And I truly didn’t come here for that.”
But why was he there? Why did he recently reactivate his account on X? And what’s next for the man many Republicans have loved to hate and many Democrats have hoped would disappear?
I have gotten to know Hunter Biden quite well over the past few years. I spent months in 2021 combing through a copy of his hard drive—the product of an infamous laptop that he allegedly dropped off at a computer repair shop and never retrieved—and learned way more about him than I cared to. The research produced a number of stories about his business pursuits, about his relationship with Tucker Carlson, and about how he benefited from his family name.
I also wrote about Biden’s attempts to become an artist, along with the ethical concerns his ambitions raised in the White House and the congressional investigations that followed. That all can seem quite quaint now. For some time, Biden has been privately angry about the Trump family and their business pursuits that involve far more money and foreign countries, pose far more conflicts of interest—and get far less scrutiny. That anger burst out in the interview with Owens.
“I had two shows and probably sold a total of 20 paintings,” he said. “And you had a problem—not you; well, you too—had a problem with me being this emblem of corruption?” Owens agreed, and said she would forever distance herself from the Trump family and now sees their business pursuits on a far different scale of corruption. “I wish I could go back to the days where I thought, like, Hunter Biden’s art was the most corrupt deal that was done in politics,” she responded.
Owens largely steered clear of the topic of Joe Biden, explaining that it would be “completely demonic” to try to get Hunter to say anything bad about his dad. Not that he would. He views himself as something of a defender of the Biden legacy at a time when so many Democrats have ridiculed the former president for deciding to run for reelection. But Owens did try to get him to address the subject of Kamala Harris, who replaced his dad on the ticket. Biden demurred, saying that he didn’t know her well and that she was always nice to him. “I’m not dodging the question,” Biden said, “but I don’t want to shit on the vice president.”
The free-ranging interview also provided a window into what I’ve long seen as Biden’s willingness to entertain ideas that can seem far-fetched, his deep skepticism of certain parts of the federal government, and a worry over the vindictiveness of the current administration.
Although his father granted a sweeping pardon to him for crimes committed in the past, Biden expressed worry about being framed or targeted by Trump in the future. Before getting on flights, he said that he has a witness watch him pack his bags, afraid that someone might plant drugs. Given his track record, he said, no one would believe that he’s clean and sober.
At one point, Biden asked to keep one of Owens’s trademark coffee mugs (the ones with Conspiracy theorist on them), and they both suggested that the assassination attempts against Trump and the murder of Kirk, a close friend to Owens, could have been staged. They have every right, the pair agreed, to question whether they were. “It’s almost as if they’re just saying, like, eff you,” Biden said of those who dismiss their questions.
“It’s so disrespectful that we’re not even getting good psyops anymore,” Owens responded. “Like, we’re supposed to believe he’s survived four—what are we at, four assassination attempts? The first president that’s ever survived four assassination attempts? They lie to us about things.”
The two also think something else has changed. “There is a meanness. A willingness to adopt very, very un-American tactics against our opponents because it’s become a zero-sum game,” Biden said. “It’s not just, I disagree with you. It’s, You need to be punished. You need to be punished for what you believe.”
As to Owens’s first question about the cocaine found at the White House in July 2023—which, at the time, spawned its own conspiracy theories—Biden said it most certainly wasn’t his. He’s been sober, he said, since June 1, 2019. “I’m an easy target. And understandably so. I’ve been, I think, probably the most famous addict—and famous person, because of the grace of God, in recovery.”
